"On the third night in Midland, Texas, Roy Orbison, who fronted The Wink Westerners, had the same volcanic experience when he saw and heard the amazing sounds of the "Trio": Elvis Presley, Scotty Moore, and Bill Black."

"I was seriously injured in an auto accident on August 20, 1982 near my home in Calabasas, California (Malibu Canyon area), which crushed my spine, causing me not to be able to continue to perform, until recently."

"Mike [Curb] and I started a small production company, Sidewalk Productions, on a $1,000 budget just after I left the Crickerts in 1965 and we worked together for 17 years; even writing some songs together."

"When one knows all the details of Norman's association with Buddy Holly, it is clear that there was never any wrongdoings by Norman against Buddy or the Crickets, or any other artist that I know of."

"If there had not been a Norman Petty in his little home studio in Clovis, New Mexico, perhaps there would never [have] been a Buddy Knox, Roy Orbison, Buddy Holly, or the Crickets among others. That would have been a tragedy!"

"I asked JI several times to be a part of the current ‘Tribute to the Rockabilly Legends’ production project . . . the CDs, and the three-hour television broadcast documentary, [but] he has not been able to find the time to be a part of this, nor have any of the other former members."

[Interviewer’s Note: Jerry Naylor is an important pioneer of rock ‘n’ roll, who (like Holly, Orbison, and other principal rock ‘n’ roll performers during the ‘50s and ‘60s) immediately gave up his hillbilly-country roots after listening to the music of Elvis Presley . . . a delivery so powerful and unique, that it triggered the rise of West-Texas Rockabilly.

Jerry Naylor may not be a household name, but his musical achievements are certainly as impressive (and in some cases, more so) as those reached by many a high-profile artist that earned name recognition.

Music has consumed Naylor’s life: His lead-vocal contributions as a member of the renowned Crickets in the early ‘60s; his production, arrangement, and recording association with Mike Curb in the mid-‘60s; and his present day, and soon-to-be released, 3-hour rockabilly legends’ documentary are his highlights. These major accomplishments (and a lot of remarkable activity among them) are brought to light in this all-embracing interview.

Many thanks to Jerry Naylor for taking time out to visit with The Lance Monthly, and an additional thanks to our good friend, Mike Bell for making this interview possible.]

Lance Monthly (LM): Jerry, when and where were you born and did you grow up in a city neighborhood or a ranch or farm away from city life?

Jerry Naylor (JN): I was born on a small farm in the small community of Chalk Mountain, Erath County, Texas between Stephenville, Texas and Glen Rose, Texas on US Highway 67. The date of my birth was, March 06, 1939.

We lived on the farm until 1944. I had just turned five years old when our family moved to Carlsbad, Texas, a very small community in West Texas, just 13 miles northwest of San Angelo. My father had become ill and was not able to continue the work on the farm; therefore, he and my mother got work at the large McKnight State Hospital in Carlsbad. My dad was first hired as the fireman [for] the hospital complex power plant, and shortly afterward became the foreman of the state hospital's dairy.

The hospital was a large facility [with] many buildings for patients, administration, staff, and support structures. The small-city-size complex was completely self-supported with its entire infrastructure: power plant, dairy, creamery, commercial laundry, truck garden for fresh fruit and vegetables, multiple kitchens for all food preparation, post office, fire department, movie theater, etc. This is where I grew up--just outside the fenced state tuberculosis hospital. Iroically, both Jimmy Rogers (the Blue Yodeler) and Ernest Tubb were one-time patients there.

LM: How many brothers and sister did you have?

JN: I have two older siblings: my sister, Nell is four years my senior and my brother, Don is 12 years my senior. As I mentioned above, my dad was a farmer in Erath County, Texas until 1944 (age 44) and then worked the rest of his live for the state of Texas at the McKnight State Hospital, Carlsbad, Texas. My mother also worked as a cook at the state hospital and, in 1951, became the cook at the Carlsbad School's (grades 1 through 8) newly constructed Cafateria.

LM: Aside from you, did any other members of your birth family have a strong interest in singing or playing an instrument?

JN: My mother, Mary Bernice, was a wonderful pianist for our little rural Plainview Church at Chalk Mountain, Texas when we lived on the farm and then at our First Baptist Church [in] Carlsbad, Texas. She could also sing very well. My brother is also a pretty good singer, but my sister Nell, is the real singer of the family. She has a beautiful, sweet voice and perfect pitch! Ironically, I never recorded with her--and I am ashamed of this--until I recorded my latest CD, "The Rockabilly Legends; a Tribute to my Friends," on which she sings background with her son, Glen Briggs and me on "Party Doll" and "Lonely Weekends." What an absolute thrill!

Nell and I often sang duets in church when we were growing up and have done this a few times in these later years at her church in Roxton, Texas. Like our dear Mother, Nell also plays the piano at church and home.

LM: What were the typical chores that your parents required of you, and what did you do to entertain yourself during your free time in your youth?

JN: Chores: Well, we had chickens which laid eggs, so I had to feed the chickens, gather the eggs (ever watching for rattlesnakes in the nests), clean the chicken yard, and then we had domestic rabbits. I was in charge of feeding, cleaning, watering, petting, and sometime even burying these beautiful animals.

Then I raised a couple of pigs to sell at market [which meant that I] built and kept the pig pen mended; [I] fed the pigs, watered the pigs, fed the pigs, cleaned the pen, watered the pigs on hot West Texas summer days, fed the pigs, and then one day I went out to the pen and [one of these] huge animals had died from overfeeding and heat stroke. [Then] I buried [the] pig and got a belt whipping from my father for killing the pig.

I chopped weeds and actually began my structured work at age eight. I worked for my dad at the state hospital dairy, cleaning up after the dairy cows in the milking stalls (approximately fifty cows per milking twice per day). I worked as a creamery deliver truck driver at age ten. That's how and where I learned to drive a car (delivery panel truck). Also from age ten to my teen years, I worked for a neighbor farmer in his cotton field, chopping weeds from the cotton in the spring and summer and picking cotton in the fall.

I loved music and at age nine began steel guitar lessons in nearby San Angelo, Texas. I joined my first band, a country band, at age ten. I was a singer and the steel guitar player.

"Free time?" What "free time?" We were poor working class and there was no free time except when I went to school or to church. I loved them both and loved to sing at each location. As a matter of fact, I would pretty much sing at every location. There were a couple of beer joints in Carlsbad [called] Red's and Nina's and I began my career singing and playing country music in these beer joints at age ten. It was wonderful. Beer joints on Friday and Saturday nights and in the protection of our Lord, church singing on Sunday. The best of all worlds and I got a great education in life every day and night.

By age thirteen, I got my driving license, assisted by a local county judge whose election to office I had assisted with my crude little performing act. He declared that I was a "hardship case" and needed to legally operate an automobile for self-assistance and that of my family. With license to legally drive in my hand, I immediately purchased a silver, 1941 4-door Plymouth sedan for $300 from my best friend’s grandfather. It only had 28,000 miles on it and was like new.

I loaded it with quarts of beer, half-pints of cheap whiskey, and slow gin, purchased illegally as I was way under age, and [I] bootlegged this liquor over the county line to Lamesa, Texas--a dry county of Texas, which allowed no legal sales of liquor. There I sold these quart bottles of beer, which I had purchased for 25 cents each, for $1.00 each and the quick-selling half-pints of whiskey and slow gin for three times my purchase price. This was a regular late-Friday-night-early-Saturday-morning-100-mile trip, which was very lucrative. I would be back home by noon, most days.

With this money, I was able to purchase a double-neck steel guitar, foot pedal, and Alamo amplifier, not to mention some custom made cowboy boots and western shirts for stage gear. I was now ready to go professional as a singer. I was fourteen when I put my own band together and we began booking in and around San Angelo in country nightclubs made historical by Lefty Frizzell and Ernest Tubb, among other legends.

My Mother told me that if I was going to do this performing music for a career, I needed to be "the one in the middle of the stage" who sings at the microphone, not sitting back or at the side playing the steel guitar. I never played the steel guitar again on stage thereafter and became the lead singer of our band. I was a very old 14 years.

LM: What high school did you attend and was the typical attire western?

JN: I'll take this as a two-part question: For my freshman year, I attented Water Valley High School, [in] Water Valley, Texas. There were less than twenty students in my class. To say this was a small school is an understatement. However, there was a football team and I was on it. Well, sort-of! It was Six-Man Tackle Football and everyone HAD to play offense and defence, for we didn't have enough to field two teams. I think I actually played in two games. Somewhere I have a photo from the Water Valley High School yearbook in that infamous football uniform. This was not a major highlight of my high school years.

WATER VALLEY, TEXAS: Water Valley is on U.S. Highway 87 and the Gulf, Colorado and Santa Fe Railway, twenty-two miles northwest of San Angelo in northwestern Tom Green County. At this time, I lived just seven miles back toward San Angelo in the small community of Carlsbad, Texas. In 1939 the Water Vally Public School had 157 elementary and sixty high school students, and the student population rose to a high of 180 in 1953. This is when I was a sprouting freshman and the year I formally began my professional entertainment career at age 14.

I was hired as a "gofer" ("go-for" anything anyone needed and clean up afterward!) by Joe Treadway, the co-owner of the newly constructed 1000 watt country-music radio station, KPEP Radio, San Angelo, Texas, and it was from this that my career was launched. KPEP was the sister station to the soon-to-be legendary Lubbock, Texas radio station, KDAV.

Dave Stone (actually "Dave Pinkstone") and Joe Treadway were partners in [the] ownership of KPEP and KDAV. Joe Treadway and Dave Stone were show promoters as well as radio-station owners and would become responsible for the successful foundation of several well-known West Texas entertainers, including Buddy Holly, Roy Orbison, as well as myself.

[In] my Sophmore year, I transferred to Lakeview High School in San Angelo, Texas because I was working full time at KPEP Radio in San Angelo. I worked a disc jockey show in the afternoons and on weekends.

I also formed my first band with fellow Lakeview student, Toby Yeager on guitar and other older musicians in San Angelo. We performed on a weekly, fifteen-minute live radio show every Saturday afternoon on KPEP Radio and worked local honky tonks in and around San Angelo, such as The Dixie Club, The Rose Garden, The Hanger, and the legendary list goes on and on. These places were legendary because they were also the proving grounds for such country-music legends as Ernest Tubb, Hank Thompson, Bob Wills, Lefty Frizzell, among others. It was their influence and ghosts, which loomed large in West Texas that got my heart moving.

We didn't really dress in typical western attire, or did we? We dressed in jeans and sport shirts or everyday western shirts and I did wear boots some of the time. As a matter of fact, I had some fancy red-white-and-blue, custom-made boots handmade in those days to wear in the beer joints. I also had a few fringed shirts (western dress shirts with suede fringe on the front and back for entertaining). So, I guess we did wear typical western attire. Again, somewhere I must have a photo of this period of my life.

LM: Did you do any recordings during your western-music career?

JN: I didn't record until 1955, when I was sixteen. I wrote a rockabilly-bop song, called "Hillbilly Bop" and recorded this and "Money Honey" at the KPEP Radio Station Studio. It was released on TNT, Bob Tanner's label in San Antonio, Texas. I don't think "released" was the proper term, for I don't believe it was really released. A few recordings were pressed by TNT (and I would give anything to have a copy of this today), but it never found it’s way out of Tom Green County, I believe. And, no, I can't remember the words or tune to "Hillbilly Bop." Sorry!

Actually, the next year, 1956, I helped found The Cavaliers, and my old Cavaliers’ co-founder [and] guitar player friend, Sid Holmes, somehow ended up with some amazing radio show tapes from this era. These are soon to be released on a new Cavaliers’ West Texas Rockabilly Heaven CD, along with others who were involved in that group. This would, of course, include J. Frank Wilson, who became the lead singer [while] I was with the Crickets and in 1964 recorded the million-selling hit, "Last Kiss" right there in San Angelo, Texas.

LM: I had no idea that you were the founder of The Cavaliers. The late J. (John) Frank Wilson (passed away 01/04/91), who, as you say, was the group’s vocalist on its number one hit "Last Kiss" (written by Wayne Cochran), didn’t really benefit from this 1964 smash release. Reportedly, Wilson and The Cavaliers sued the releasing label, Josie Records, for unpaid royalties from "Last Kiss" and an album that sold in the neighborhood of 100,000. After the lawyers were paid, the group netted a measly three grand. What are your thoughts on this and how well did you know J. Frank Wilson?

(JN): I was honored to be a co-founder of the Cavaliers with Sid Holmes, Carol Smith, and Ronnie Stovall. It was an exciting time in West Texas--and the world--as the influence of the new rockabilly innovator, Elvis Presley, poured over us like warm sweet syrup.

I didn't know J. Frank Wilson at all as I had left the Cavaliers in early 1958 for a solo singing career, as well as continuing my career in radio work in El Paso (KHEY and KINT Radio) for a few months. [This was] followed by a short stint in radio and local television in Albuquerque, New Mexico (KLOS Radio). (I can't remember the local television stations on which Glen Campbell and I performed as a team with Bill Prevetti, the show host.)

[Interviewer’s Note: Prevetti was the owner and operator of KDEF AM radio in the ‘50s. He sold the station and moved to KOB AM Radio and TV in the early ‘60s. He then became a rock ‘n’ roll jockey with Albuquerque’s number one radio station, KQEO AM during the mid -‘60s. Today, KDEF AM is owned and operated by Henry Tafoya with a sports-talk-show-host format. Now here’s a shameless plug: I wrote a vocal theme song for Tafoya’s show called "It’s Henry T. Time." My son, Jason produced the tune, The Knights recorded it, and I presented the finished product to Tafoya in 1993. The tune went over so well with Tafoya’s fans, he continues to use it to this day to introduce his show.]

I met Glen just after moving to Albuquerque in 1959 and we began to write songs together while he was still working at the Hitching Post country-music nightspot. As you may know, in January of 1960, I brought Glen Campbell and his new wife, Billie with me to Los Angeles where he and I signed a staff songwriters’ [agreement] with American Music Publishing Company. This was the beginning of Glen's career as a major studio musician and eventually his contract with Capitol Records where his very successful singing career was cultivated.

As I became the lead singer with the Crickets, Glen was building a reputation as a session musician which would, in a realitively short time, make him one of the most sought-after guitar players on major sessions on the West Coast. Glen was making approximately $100,000 per year as a session musician before he had his first hit record for Capitol Records.

I know some about the Josie law suit; however, that tragic action of not paying the artists--an action taken by many of the record companies then (and even now)--is one of the major illnesses of our industry and has crippled many very talented artists, [and] devastated great would-be careers. I have to admit [that] I have been the victim of this practice, even during my successful Crickets' recording years.

I was more fortunate than [many] in that I had a good income from [a] constant national and international personal-appearance touring schedule (32 tours of Europe for example, post-Crickets -- 1965 to 1982), as well as working approximately 250 dates per year as long as I wanted, and my health allowed it, throughout the US, Canada, Asia, and Europe.

I was seriously injured in an auto accident on August 20, 1982 near my home in Calabasas, California (Malibu Canyon area), which crushed my spine, causing me not to be able to continue to perform, until recently. I have had eleven major spine-reconstruction surgeries since the accident and the 12th surgery is scheduled to be performed on January 08, 2004, just weeks away from this writing.

God has richly blessed me in that He has allowed and assisted the medical doctors to restore the integrity of my back and protect my spinal cord, preventing permanent paralysis. I constantly give all the Glory to God for his daily blessings, and now in the autumn of my career, I have a mega production project, which is being released worldwide to critical acclaim. This production, which I have wanted to create and produce for decades, is passionately dedicated [to] a very special era in our American music history: "The Rockabilly Legends; a tribute to My Friends" . . . the friends with whom I began my career in 1954 on the Louisiana Hayride shows and throughout West Texas.

With our new production, I will be able to tour throughout the next year or more in the US, UK, Canada, Europe, Australia, and other countries and continually release multiple CDs, a three-hour television documentary, plus another two-hour television production for next summer, a series of five volumes of the Rockabilly Legends Anthology Book, and more. These are truly God's special Blessings.

LM: When did you get interested in rockabilly and what artists of that genre did you like?

JN: "Well, That's All Right Now Mama!"

It was a hot day in July 1954, when a package of 45 records arrived at the KPEP Radio Ranch and when I opened it, inside I found a 45 record which sported a flashy bright yellow label with a black rooster on it and the words, S-U-N RECORDS. It also sported the artist’s name, "Elvis Presley." Moments later, I knew what I was going to do for the rest of my life! I put the small 45-RPM recording on the studio turntable, gently lifted the stylis over [and] onto the grooves and suddenly my heart exploded. I went wild with excitement. Here was the sound I had only dreamed of. The rest is history.

A few months later, Joe Treadway booked a Louisiana Hayride Show into the San Angelo, Texas Municiple Auditorium, which was headlined by Billy Walker and Jimmy and Johnny, and down at the bottom of the bill was "Alvis Presley." Yes, Joe misspelled [Elvis’s] name on the posters.

Tillman Franks had booked Elvis on the Louisiana Hayride in Shreveport, Louisiana a few months earlier and worked with Treadway for a "little West Texas" tour of three nights. This was January 5 in San Angelo, January 6 in Lubbock, and January 7 in Midland/ Odessa, Texas. Three nights in West Texas changed the world of entertainment. I promoted the show on the radio station as a disc jockey, put up the poster all over Tom Green County, [and] took the tickets at the door. Then [I] ran around to the stage and, with my little group, sang three songs before Elvis, Scotty, and Bill overturned the world. [It was a] night which will live on in history.

The next night in Lubbock, Buddy Holly had the same experience as he stood back stage and witnessed Elvis in action. Buddy, who then was a part of the group [called] Buddy and Bob (Buddy Holly and Bob Montgomery--and sometimes Sonny Curtis on fiddle, among others), threw away his country songbook, just as I had done, and began to be the super star he would become two years later.

On the third night in Midland, Texas, Roy Orbison, who fronted The Wink Westerners, had the same volcanic experience when he saw and heard the amazing sounds of the "Trio": Elvis Presley, Scotty Moore, and Bill Black. [He] immediately moved from The Westerners to Roy Orbison and the Rockabilly Teen Kings! This was truly "Three Nights In West Texas," which shook the world of entertainment with its influence. As a matter of fact, this is the "spinal cord" of the storyline for our three-hour "Tribute to the Rockabilly Legends" television documentary, which will be broadcasted early next year on national and international television and marketed worldwide on DVD.

LM: And I’m certainly looking forward to that three-hour television special after watching your twenty-minute promotional introductory DVD that you sent me. I’ve had the pleasure of interviewing many of the artists with which you visited. Can you give our readers some more information on this historic documentary?

JN: I have just signed a five-year, worldwide marketing agreement partnership with a major international marketing company for the purpose of marketing the overall multi-media production, "The Tribute to the Rockabilly Legends." This project includes five (at the moment) CDs: the three-hour television documentary and DVD. A second two-hour television special [will] be produced and broadcasted in the summer of 2004 internationally and marketed on DVD. [It’s] entitled "The Sons, Daughters and Friends of the Rockabilly Legends," and a five-volume book series and full-length coffee table book [called] "The Rockabilly Legends Anthology" [will soon be available].

The first phase of this worldwide marketing campaign will be launched on January 16, 2004 through television, radio, print media, and the Internet. I will travel to Los Angeles next week for the production of the first 30-minute infomercials and the two-minute, one-minute, and 30-second television commercials. Please watch for this as it unfolds to celebrate the 50th Anniversary of Rockabilly and Rock and Roll Music throughout the coming year and beyond.

LM: So you played in a few rockabilly bands before you joined The Crickets, right?

JN: Yes, I had a little "un-names" Rockabilly band beginning in 1955 in San Angelo, and then [I became] one of the co-founders as the lead singer for The Cavaliers in San Angelo, Texas beginning in 1956. I was with the Cavaliers until I joined the army in September 1957 and [also with the group] for a short term in 1958 when I returned from the army. [In addition], I worked steady with the traveling "Louisiana Hayride" shows booked by Tillman Franks and Joe Treadway throughout West Texas and New Mexico during this same time. These two men are the major forces behind the foundation of my whole career.

LM: Did you meet Buddy Holly and befriend the members of The Crickets before joining the band in 1960?

JN: No, not really. I did meet Buddy once at KDAV Radio in 1956 or ‘57, but it was just a chance meeting and I did not meet Jerry Allison or Joe B. Mauldin until 1960 in Los Angeles, just before I joined the group. There was really no group when I joined Jerry Allison as the Crickets. It was only the two of us and Allison had signed a new recording contract with Liberty Records. There are photos of Jerry Allison, Joe B. Mauldin, and myself from this period (1960, early '61), especially on the cover of the "Bobby Vee Meets the Crickets" album. Joe B. [however,] was just brought in for the photo sessions and we never recorded together or performed together during this time.

I knew a lot about Buddy Holly and the Crickets, and followed their great 1957, '58 success. [This was] because Buddy was so closely associated with KDAV Radio in Lubbock, and I was a permanent fixture withKPEP Radio in San Angelo.

Like other acts in West Texas at that time [such as] Buddy Knox (my dear friend who was actually the first in West Texas to have a million-selling hit record with "Party Doll," followed by two more million-sellers from that "famous $60 recording session" at Norman Petty's Recording Studio), and Roy Orbision, I was doing everything I could to jump-start my career. [So] any news of a recording contract, let alone a hit recording, was BANNER HEADLINES in the word-of-mouth pipeline. I followed each minute detail of these careers, and little did I know that God had a plan for me to become a part of this legendary group after the shocking death of Buddy Holly just a few months into his brilliant career.

This was a very tough assignment and, looking back, I thank God daily for the lessons learned and the amazing experience of it all. When one follows the track of this evalution from the sidelines to the center stage with the Crickets, it is truly Divine Intervention. There is no way I, or anyone else could have planned this amazing career journey.

LM: Jerry, in your 20-minute promo-intro of the three-hour rockabilly special, I didn’t see any reference to the great Norman Petty guitar instrumental bands that swept the nation during the late ‘50s and early ‘60s. I’m specifically referring to The Fireballs and the String-A-Longs. Many U.S. bands came on the scene during that time (including my own, The Knights) as a result of their unique instrumental expressions. Although The Ventures, shortly thereafter, took guitar instrumentals to a new level and style of rock during that group’s reign, certainly George Tomsco, Keith McCormack, Aubre deCordova, et al, who were the pioneers of Petty’s novel rockabilly-instrumental-recorded offerings, should warrant a mention. Did you include Norman’s instrumental groups in your documentary?

(JN): We shot for two days in the original Norman Petty Studio for our documentary and these precious interviews included George Tomsco (my dear friend) and Stan of the Fireballs. Each is featured througout the three-hour documentary and particularly in the 22-minute Buddy Holly chapter (each Legendary artist has his own chapter in the documentary).

I plan to do more with with George and the Fireballs in the near future and especially record some tracks with them and feature them again in the "Sons, Daughters and Friends of the Rockabilly Legends" CD volumes and two-hour television production now in pre-production and scheduled for completion. [It will] air on television and worldwide markets on DVD in June 2004.

LM: Although Norman Petty was a key person in the launching of many high-profile rock ‘n’ roll careers, many of these artists (including Buddy Holly himself) had their misgivings about his business practices. How do you view this and how would you describe Norman Petty’s demeanor?

(JN): I recorded my last session with the Crickets at Norman's Clovis, New Mexico Studio and I must say I am first a huge fan of Norman Petty as a legendary producer/ innovator/ pioneer of our industry, and [I’m] fortunate to have called him as friend. I got to know him much better in my seventeen-year association as an artist and business partner with Mike Curb and what became Mike Curb Productions.

Mike and I started a small production company, Sidewalk Productions, on a $1,000 budget just after I left the Crickerts in 1965 and we worked together for 17 years; even writing some songs together. During this [time], I was the lead vocal talent on the introduction of the much acclaimed national Honda Motorcycles television and radio commercials ("You Meet the Nicest People on a Honda"), and soon after, the lead vocalist on several of the first hits by a newly named group from this advertising campaign, The Hondells. I was never a member of this group, but I was the lead vocalist on the first hits.

During this association, I also was fortunate to have a few solo recording successes: "But for Love" on Columbia Records in 1970 garnered Grammy nominations (we didn't win, but I was named one of the "Top Forty Male Vocalists" of that year by Cashbox Magazine as a result of this very popular recording). We then had a string of country music hit recordings, beginning with "Is This All There is To a Honky Tonk" in 1974 on Melodyland/ Hitsville/ Motown Records. There were seven nationally charted country recordings, which followed this initial release.

Ray Ruff, a former West Texan, became one of my producers during these years and Norman Petty would often join us in the Los Angeles studios where we recorded my sessions. I recorded a version of [composer, Sonny West’s] "Rave On" with Norman present and that was very exciting. Norman was a very talented man, and I feel, a very honest man. When one knows all the details of Norman's association with Buddy Holly, it is clear that there was never any wrongdoings by Norman against Buddy or the Crickets, or any other artist that I know of.

LM: You say that The Crickets were not really a group when you joined. Could you elaborate on that statement for our readers?

JN REPLY: Well, when I joined the Crickets, there was only Jerry Allison, the drummer, successful songwriter, and co-founder of the Crickets with Buddy Holly in 1957. Joe B. Mauldin had left the group and owned a nightclub in Lubbock, Texas. Jerry had just signed a new recording contract with his old friend, Snuff Garrett who was the Director of A&R for Liberty Records. Snuff was a huge Buddy Holly/ Crickets fan and had also just signed Bobby Vee to Liberty Records. Sonny Curtis was serving in the US Army and Glen D. Hardin had just been mustered out of the US Navy and owned a gas station in Lubbock.

Jerry Allison and the Crickets' Personal Manager, Danny Whitman, signed a contract with me in late 1960 to join Jerry Allison in putting the group back together, record for Liberty Records, and become the lead singer with the Crickets. It was several months after we first recorded for Liberty that Sonny and Glen D. actually joined us to re-form the successful touring and recording group, now known as "The Liberty Years Crickets." We were together as a successful recording and touring group until the middle of 1965.

LM: When exactly did you become a member of the Crickets and, with respect to recordings and venues, how active was the group while you were its lead vocalist? In addition, why did you move on?

(JN): I joined the Crickets in October or November of 1960 (Peggy Sue says it was October and somehow I remember it being November, but that doesn't matter), and left the Crickets in June of 1965 to become a featured artist on the ABC-Television weekly variety show, "Shindig." I also met and began recording with Mike Curb, as mentioned above.

Mike and I co-wrote a song on that last Crickets’ session, which was recorded at Norman Petty's studio in Clovis, New Mexico on January 1 and 2 of 1965. The song is titled, "Thoughtless" and was finally released in the UK on an album in about 1970-something and is included in many of the Crickets' EMI CD re-packages since 1989. The Liberty Years Crickets were very active.

When Sonny Curtis and Glen D. Hardin came aboard in 1961, we worked constantly, recording two albums for Liberty Records, doing television shows, being featured in two movies: " Just for Fun" (1962 UK release) and "Girls on the Beach" with the Beach Boys and Leslie Gore in 1964 (US, worldwide release), and touring successfully throughout the US, Canada, the UK (the 1962 Bobby Vee Meets the Crickets Tour is still much talked about by our loyal and amazing fans), and Europe.

We wore out a few new Cadillacs pulling a 5 X 7 trailer full of Fender equipment, drums and a really slick Shure PA System; quite a difference from today's touring entourages with buses, tour support, etc. It was just the four of us and Peggy Sue out there on that road, and it was wonderful! It was character building too!

Unfortunately, I had a serious heart attack just after completion of the filming of the movie, "Girls on the Beach." No, it wasn't the "Girls in Bikinis," but the abuse I have flooded my body with by taking excessive numbers of amphetamines--like others in those days--just to "keep going." Well, that was the excuse I gave for this stupidity. It almost killed me and came near to wrecking my whole career. I was in the hospital for several weeks and had to stop touring and recording with the Crickets for several months.

Buzz Cason took my place as the lead singer on the second UK tour and when I was able to come back, the group was very shakey at best. It was not long afterward (and only one more session as mentioned in New Mexico) before the group broke up. Sonny Curtis left for a solo recording career, Glen D. Hardin joined a classic group of musicians to become the "Shindogs" on the ABC-Television series, "Shindig," and I eventually became a regular artist on the same show. The group just seemed to drift apart by mid-summer [of] 1965, and Jerry Allison began to play drums and tour with my old friend, Roger Miller. This period of my professional career was indeed the brightest and [provided me the] best training for a lifetime of the entertainment business.

As I look back, and especially now with this new rockabilly project, I can see how critically inportant these years and this creative work is and was in the history of the Crickets and to my personal career. I am deeply thankful for and reverant about this association with the Crickets. JI, Sonny, and Glen D. Hardin were the best musicians I have ever worked with and this creative work is some of the best each of us has been associated with.

The fans are, however, the best part of all of this. Their faithfulness, their honesty, their critical support during all of these years and today [are] most valued by me, and I am humbled by their friendship and loyalty. No artist has ever had better, nor will they ever have. Crickets' fans are solid as a rock and are schooling their children and grandchildren in this classic music of their youth. How much better could this be for us and how can each of us possibly repay this dedicated loyalty? I will spend the rest of my life trying to do just this. That is the mission I am dedicated to and with this rockabilly tribute project as the vehicle for now, I will work until I drop for them.

God has given me a second chance, and I plan to spend every ounce of creative ability and energy God has reserved within me for and with these fans plus the generations of fans who have come along through their undying loyalty since our beginnings.

LM: Going back to the soon-to-be-released, three-hour, rockabilly documentary, kudos to you for giving George Tomsco and Stan Clark of The Fireballs their due; however, what about The String-A-Longs who released a huge guitar-instrumental hit, "Wheels?" Will this group be included in the special as well?

JN: No, I'm sorry to say the String-A-Longs were not included in this documentary. As the title indicates, "Tribute to the Rockabilly Legends" is a three-hour television documentary, which solely focuses on the in-depth founding history, my introduction to, and the personal contributions made to the world of music by these giant rockabilly legends. The beauty of this to me is that we allow the "Legends" themselves to be the primary storytellers, supported by an array of their family members, musicians, producers, agents, and friends. The all-star line-up is wonderful, and the inside stories of this era by those who pioneered this music are historical, educational, passionate, and very entertaining.

LM: Were you with Mike Curb when he laid down a number of Davie Allan and The Arrows’ tracks specifically for a slew of early to mid-‘60s B-biker flicks?

JN: Yes, actually I was with Mike Curb when his company was formed in the summer of 1965, [and as previously stated,] I started "Sidewalk" productions with Mike with a $1,000 investment and became his first artist.

In January of 1966, Mike Curb Productions was incorporated in the state of California [where] Mike and I worked. I was an artist for the production company for 17 years, releasing masters through Smash/ Mercury Records, Tower/ Capitol Records, CBS/ Columbia Records, MGM Records, Hitsville/ Melodyland/ Motown Records, and Warner- Curb Records/ Warner Bros. Records.

Mike and I also worked in regional and national politics during this time and in 1978, I helped Mike get elected to the office of Lieutenant Governor of the state of California and in 1980, Ronald Reagan to the office of President of the United States. Both Mike and I were also involved in the President Reagan Administration for its two terms.

[Because] I suffered very serious back and spine injuries in a car-versus-car auto accident in August of 1982, [I] was not able to continue my recording and performing career; [that is], until recently with our new "Tribute to the Rockabilly Legends" project and only after twelve major back reconstructive surgeries between 1982 and 2003.

LM: Sadly, amphetamines was the drug of choice for the high-profile artists of the late ‘50s and early ‘60s, as it was legal and easily obtained. In fact, Elvis Presley’s serious drug addiction began during his army stint, since amphetamines in tablet form was encouraged to keep the troops alert. The drug became so dangerous that the freaks during the ‘60s and early ‘70s often said, "Speed kills" as a discouragement for taking it. Your comments?

JN: Well, I agree with the term, "speed kills!" and I will amplify that statement to the degree, "DRUGS KILL!" Unfortunately, so many entertainers of the ‘60s, ‘70s, and ‘80s became such heavy users of illicit drugs and the "glamour" of these influential musical heroes have ravaged entire generations of teenagers into an epidemic of deadly drug use in proportions never seen before in our nation, or around the world. Drugs are not "cool!"

Take a good look at the lives of those musical heroes, or better said: the deaths of those drug-victim entertainers. The daily death toll from illicit, illegal drug use in America is staggering.

During the Reagan Administration, I was appointed by President Reagan as a Federal Commissioner, Advisor to the President, "Chairman of the Youth at Risk Committee of the National Commission for Employment Policy." During these years, I realized first hand the horrific toll drugs play in the destruction of a generation of young people. One statistic sticks in my mind even today and I am sure it is still accurate: "More people are killed each year through drugs and alcohol related deaths in America than all of the [U.S.] military personnel killed in ALL THE WARS FOUGHT TO DATE in the defense of our great Nation." Think about that statement and then read your local newspaper each day and tally the drug and alcohol deaths of our young people [and] our neighbors of our local communities. It is no longer a big-city-slum problem. It is a main street, USA problem, incorporating every neighborhood in America.

This is a tragedy and we must find some way to stop this. The cure starts--and perhaps finishes at home--through our families, churches, schools, and local organizations. No cure will be applicable from the legislative top down to our local community. This is a very personal family problem and must be solved at that local family level.

LM: When you were touring with The Crickets abroad, what other groups normally went along, who set up the tours, and was the UK the most receptive?

JN: The most successful tour we did when I was the lead singer [for] the Crickets was the classic 1962 "Bobby Vee Meets the Crickets UK Tour." On this seven weeks tour, we shared the stage each night with Bobby Vee, as we also had a number one album by the same name on the British charts at the time, plus single recordings which were also at the top of those national charts: "Please Don't Ever Change," "My Little Girl," "Teardrops Fall Like Rain," etc. Ronnie Carroll, Frank Berry, Johnny de Little, and others were [also] on that tour. I think I have a play bill from that tour somewhere.

We toured successfully in Canada many times and throughout the US. We had several promoters and booking agents we worked with, however most of these tours were booked through the General Artists Corporation (GAC), one of the largest agencies of that era with all arrangements made through the Crickets' personal manager, Danny Whitman.

[In addition] we did a lot of television in those days, especially in Los Angeles and even did a television special and three-day concert tour to Hawaii in 1965, our last year together. We also were featured in two feature motion pictures: (1963) "Just for Fun," a British film which featured a long list of entertainment stars from the USA and UK. Two hit songs came from that movie, "My Little Girl" and "Teardrops Fall Like Rain," [and] in 1964, we were featured in the "Beach Classic" movie, "Girls on the Beach" with the Beach Boys and Leslie Gore, plus several top name young actors and actresses of that era. Jerry Allison, the Crickets co-founder with Buddy Holly [and] drummer and co-writer of many of the Crickets' biggest hits, re-wrote "LaBamba" with a beach-lyric and this also became a hit for us from [that] movie, although I must admit, it was never one of my favorite recordings. When [I] see that movie, which still plays often on [the] Movie Classics’ Cable Channel, the repetition of "LaBamba" throughout the movie drives me up the wall. It was a lot of fun, however.

LM: No doubt, Norman Petty’s engineering and production contributions, as well as his high-profile-artist launchings in the late ‘50s and early ‘60s are legendary; however, there have been grievances made by some of his artists in reference to his taking of a portion of the writers’ credits when, in fact, he had contributed nothing toward the compositions. In addition, many of the well-known Holly biographers have blasted him for this. What are your thoughts on this, and has this ever happened to you?

JN: Well, I never wrote a song with Norman Petty, although, in [our] very last session as the Crickets at Norman Petty’s Clovis, New Mexico studio on January 01 and 02, 1965, Mike Curb and I co-wrote a song for that session [titled] "Thoughtless." Norman never mentioned anything about wanting to share in the writing credits with us. It wasn't a really great song, but it made it onto a Crickets’ album and subsequently has been re-packaged on several of the recent Crickets’ releases worldwide on EMI Records.

Norman was a classic producer and recording engineer. His talent and sheer discography of classic hits speak for themselves. Norman Petty and his wife (Vi Petty) were a class act, as well. They were a strong Christian couple, unafraid to testify of their belief openly. They were kind to every person I know who entered their door, beginning with my dear friend, Buddy Knox, who was the very first artist in West Texas to record a million selling record with Norman Petty. As a matter of fact, in that little recording session, Buddy Knox, Jimmy Bowen, and Donnie Lanier (The Rhythm Orchids) paid Norman $60.00--all the money they collectively had at that time--for the expense of the session to record four songs they had written. From this historical session came FOUR million-selling-single recordings: "Party Doll." "I'm Sticing With You," "Hula Love," and "Rock Your Little Baby."

In an interview we use in [the] upcoming television documentary, Roy Orbison, testifies that he met Buddy Knox in Clovis and immediately carried the news to Buddy Holly back in Lubbock about this little studio in Clovis and the man named, Norman Petty. As Orbison tells the story, he told Buddy Holly that he should get over to Clovis as quickly as he could to try to get that Norman Petty to let him record in his studio there.

The Petty Studio, at that early date, was not a commercial studio. Norman had built this little home recording facility to record his own pop group, The Norman Petty Trio, which was enjoying national-recognition recording for a New York record company. Roy recorded the second version of "Ooby Dooby" with Norman Petty at this time and it was released and charted, even though, less than a year later, Orbison re-recorded the same "Ooby Dooby" for the third time with Sam Phillips at Sun Records in Memphis. It was this version which charted higher and helped to launch his star-studded career.

I believe Norman was honest and helped some very talented young artists change the music world, as we know it today. That's the Norman Petty legacy, [which] I'll stick with. If there had not been a Norman Petty in his little home studio in Clovis, New Mexico, perhaps there would never [have] been a Buddy Knox, Roy Orbison, Buddy Holly, or the Crickets among others. That would have been a tragedy!

God places people in locations for a reason, and it is my belief that He placed Norman Petty in Clovis, New Mexico to make the world aware of the amazing talents of Buddy Knox, Buddy Holly, and Roy Orbison; pioneer talents, whose musical influence has contributed to the success of some of the biggest super-star recording artists the world has ever known. To God give the Glory, and to Norman Petty, give the credit.

LM: When you and most of the other members of the Crickets left to persue other endeavors in 1965, how long did it take for the band to get back on track and who became the new members? In addition, did stress among the members of the Crickets play a big part in the 1965 mass departure?

JN: "The Post Buddy Holly, Liberty Years Crickets," as we have become known, broke up in late summer of 1965. Perhaps, "BROKE UP" is the wrong terminology; we seemed to simply drift apart, one after the other during this period of time, and in the end there was only Jerry Allison left, as it was in the beginning when I joined the group. It was Jerry Allison, the drummer of the original Crickets, but no group to surround him.

Joe B. Mauldin had opted to quit the group and owned a nightclub in Lubbock, Texas. Sonny Curtis was serving in the U.S. Army, Niki Sullivan had long left the group for other interests, and young David Box, who recorded a few tracks with JI and the post Buddy Holly Crickets, was no longer there. Jerry Allison signed a recording contract with Liberty Records at the urging of his old friend, Snuff Garrett, a former disc jockey in Texas, and it was at this time in late 1960 that JI offered the lead singing position to me--and I accepted.

As you will remember, Jerry Allison was the co-founder of the Crickets with Buddy Holly, as well as [being] the [band’s] drummer. He and Buddy co-wrote "That'll Be the Day," "Peggy Sue," and many of the other great hits. JI, as we all call him, is an extremely talented gentleman as a musician, songwriter, and performer. He has been stalwart in keeping the Crickets’ name active all these years and has been responsible for some great Crickets’ creative product.

[As I earlier stated,] In May of 1964, while we were completing the filming of our second movie appearance in "Girls on the Beach" with the Beach Boys, Leslie Gore, and some very talented young actors and actresses, I suffered a very serious and life-threatening heart attack. This was brought on by my abuse of amphetamines. I literally had a "blowout" and fortunately suffered no permanent heart damage. I was hospitalized for six weeks (two hospitalizations) and then had to be flown back to Texas for the support of my family during my post-hospitalization recovery time. I was forced to take several months off to recuperate from my heart attack in 1964, but returned to the group in December on that year. We recorded our last session together at Norman Petty's recording studio on January 01-02, 1965.

Actually, the first performance I did after my heart attack was as a solo performer at the Long Beach Arena before approximately 17,000 screaming (mostly young girls) audience as the opening act for The Rolling Stones. Keith Allison played lead guitar for me on that date. Keith looked a lot like Paul McCartney in those days and I think all of the girls were really screaming because they thought it was REALLY Paul on guitar.

I mentioned the Norman-Petty-January-1965-recording session earlier in this interview in which we recorded the little song, "You’re So Thoughtless" [that] Mike Curb and I co-wrote while driving to Texas for Christmas with our respective families. Looking back, that may have been a perfect song, "You're So Thoughtless" explaining why the Crickets actually broke-up. It seemed that each of us: Sonny Curtis, Glen D. Hardin, and I just drifted off for a solo performance. I think that may have been somewhat "Thoughtless" regarding the dedication we could have shown to Jerry Allison and our very dedicated and loyal-to-a-fault, Crickets' fans around the world. At any rate ("Thoughtless" as we may or may not have been), by mid-summer of 1965, the so-called "break-up" of the Crickets began.

Sonny Curtis was the first to go, as he wanted to develop a solo career and was signed to a new solo recording contract. Glen D. Hardin was hired as a member of what would become the "Shindogs," the featured group of the very popular ABC-Network Television show, "Shindig."(This group, by the way, would go on to become Elvis Presley's backing band and after Elvis' death, "The Hot Band" with Emmy Lou Harris, among other great accomplishments.) I joined the Jack-Goode-produced television show "Shindig" as well, as a solo performer with multiple bookings in the fall of 1954. Jerry Allison became the drummer for my friend, Roger Miller, and the Crickets, as a group, became inactive for some time.

In 1968, Jerry Allison contacted me and wanted me to go on a Crickets UK tour; however, I was already booked for a six-week tour in Japan and couldn't go on the specific dates he wanted. Unfortunately, that was the last time I was asked to perform with the Crickets. JI and I have talked several times about a possible recording with all of the original guys, but that has never materialized. I asked JI several times to be a part of the current "Tribute to the Rockabilly Legends" production project . . . the CDs, and the three-hour television broadcast documentary, [but] he has not been able to find the time to be a part of this, nor have any of the other former members.

LM: Who are the active members of the Crickets today and how often do they perform?

JN: At some time later--I don't know the exact date--Jerry Allison began working with a newly assembled Crickets' group and recorded some great new product with various lead singers and musicians; even one album being produced by Paul McCartney. In more recent years, Joe B. Mauldin, Sonny Curtis, and Glen D. Hardin once again are touring with Jerry Allison, with Sonny doing the lead singing honors and bringing in excellent reviews from their tour dates. I understand this group of veteran Crickets have tours booked in 2004 and a great new CD upcoming. I sincerely look forward to that, and I have still not given up on a possible reunion performance or tour, plus a "Reunion Liberty Years Crickets CD." I would really love that!

LM: Davie Allan of Davie Allan and the Arrows’ fame, has this question for you: "Jerry, do you remember an amazing unreleased track titled 'Leave Me in the Rain?' It was recorded at Capitol during the session for your 'I found You' single in 1965 and it featured Peter and Gordon doing backup harmony."

JN: Well, I sincerely remember the session and the song, but I haven't heard it for decades. Since you sent this question, I have been trying to locate a copy of this and it is no where in my archival files. I loved performing with Peter and Gordon. We played several dates together, [and] I especially remember a weeklong booking at Mr. Lackey's huge nightclub in Phoenix, Arizona in about 1968 or '69. Somewhere I have a photo of this, which I ran into recently.

I also remember the song, "Leave Me in the Rain," as I loved that song greatly. I wish I had a copy of that. If you know anyone who has a tape or copy of this, I will be very happy to purchase a copy [of it] on tape. I wrote, "I Found You" and Mike really liked it. The session was set up and since I had been working with Peter and Gordon and we had become friends, I wanted them to sing on the session, and they agreed. What a treat!

I used to see Gordon from time to time in our Save-On Drug Store in Agoura, California where my family and I lived for [more than] twenty years. I have not seen him, however, for several years as we moved from there in 1996 for the vineyards of Oregon. If anyone knows how to reach Gordon, I also would love to get back in touch with him, as well.

LM: I understand Mike Curb is in Nashville and actively working in the country-and-western field. Why, do you suppose, he turned his back on rock ‘n’ roll? Was it because of the present-day, mainstream dominance of rap groups, girly-boy bands, and sex-bomb, female torch singers ala Britney Speers?

JN: Actually, Mike has always loved and produced both country and pop artists during his entire career as a producer and record-production-company executive. However, Mike loves the oldies and often you will hear cover performances by his production company acts. From the time we began in 1965 to [the] present, Mike has driven his passion of great music and an unusual knack for identifying a hit song, translated onto a recording by a variety of artists. That's most likely what makes him so successful.

Mike's move to Nashville was a brilliant business strategy. Nashville record companies were stumbling and Mike came in and today owns the number one independent and privately owned company in the world. This billion-dollar company is the pinnacle of what we started out to create with those early "Sidewalk" productions when Mike was driving around Los Angeles with all of the masters locked in the trunk of his car for safety.

Well, "safety" may be a bit of [an] over-statement, [because] early in this period, Mike was once rear-ended by another car, pushing the bumper of his Cadillac up into the trunk. We had to pry the trunk open to get the master tapes out.

LM: Did you stay in touch with Petty on a personal and/or business level right up to his death on August 15, 1984?

JN: Yes, pretty much. Norman was a friend of Ray Ruff, a former early recording artist, also from West Texas. Ray worked with us at Mike Curb Productions and was often one of my producers, among many other acts there. Ray and Norman were close friends, especially in Norman's later days of life, and Norman often was in Los Angeles and attended many of my recording sessions. One in particular (which was very special to me) was my recording of "Rave On" with Suzie Allison, Ray Ruff's wife at the time and a very talent singer/recording artist in her own right. Norman helped with that session and we had a great time.

LM: Do you agree that the mainstream music of today can hardly be classified as rock ‘n’ roll? What is your opinion on the future of rock?

JN: Mainstream music today is NOT rock and roll. It is a genre all it's own, and I have no idea how to properly identify this type of music. To identify "rap" as music is really a stretch. Yes, there is a rhythm track and that is, indeed, some form of music. But the spoken word (most of the time so vulgar one could not repeat these words in public, nor should they) is most certainly not in any way associated with any music [of which] I know and certainly NOT ROCK AND ROLL.

There are other forms of music today called rock and roll, which most likely could apply to the foundation of our music, but again, it has lost it reverence. How dare these new, so-called "Alternative Rock" artists produce some of this trashy, lyrical-damaging material. "Alternative" is one thing, but filthy, vulgar, [and] trashy lyrics have no place in any form of entertainment, especially in public performances or broadcasted music under any name.

In another time, not too long ago, this would never have been allowed to be broadcasted on radio or television. The liberalization of our public spoken (or sung) word, is a crime against all humanity and will degrade a generation of young people to a very low point. It is also dragging our nation and other so-called leading industrial nations of the world to a very dangerous place in our civilization. Only time, and God, will reveal the final report of this historic degradation.

LM: Jerry, thank you so much for taking the time to visit with me. You’ve played such an important role in the pioneering of rock ‘n’ roll, and your soon-to-be-released, three-hour rockabilly documentory will, no doubt, prove out to be one of the greatest historic rock-music contributions the world has ever seen. I commend you on your loyal and ardent work in making this project a reality, and I pray that your January 8 surgery goes well. Your final comments?

JN: Dick, thank you for your very kind words. I hope and constantly pray that this period of our musical history will be remembered for the impact it made on people's lives. Each day I am so encouraged to hear and see the reactions of fans all over the world who are reacting to our new "Tribute to the Rockabilly Legends" production CDs and DVD preview of the upcoming three-hour television documentary. It fills my heart with great immeasurable joy to know that there are so many millions of people who want to preserve this music and to actually get back to the roots of rockabilly and rock and roll.

This "Fiftieth Anniversary of Rockabilly & Rock and Roll - 1954-2004" is perfect to re-establish this great era of music which literally changed a world culture. I am honored that God has allowed me to play a roll in this important creative work. I am humbled by the reaction of those around the world who have pledged [their support] to this movement, [and] along with us at Nayco Entertainment, the Rockabilly Hall of Fame, and the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, to assure generations before us a first-hand knowledge of where this music came from, the great pioneers who founded it, and the massive influence it has had on all of the music which followed.

Thank you so much for the opportunity to answer your questions and to recall these wonderful times with the Crickets and other areas of my career. It's difficult to realize that it has been fifty years! It has passed so quickly and with so many, many wonderful moments. If only you could see the pictures in my mind! I am trying to give everyone at least some flash-clips of these precious memories, and I give [to] each one of you much love and gratitude for your loyal support and friendship. It's been a wonderful journey.

Next month: Up Close with Clyde Hankins – He played a major roll in Lubbock during the rockabily ‘50s.

[Editor’s Note: We encourage you to send your comments on this interview to rvstewartproductions@yahoo.com. Write "Naylor Comments" in the subject box.]

"Because I played on Spector’s early stuff, Brian [Wilson] and the other artists wanted to use the same guys that Phil did and it kind of snowballed."

"I never tried to schmooze the artists and producers, was polite, but I kept a certain professional manner and distance."

"I remember many times the road bands would be in the booth staring at us through the glass, just waiting for us to die or make a mistake."

"Motown and Hal Davis were slave drivers, and wore us out rehearsing the tracks over and over till all the fun in playing was gone."

"I doubt if I would make it myself today, as the music in the music biz seems to be largely premeditated, very little spontaneity and microscopically examined, with no natural human ‘looseness’ allowed."

[Interviewer’s Note: Larry Knechtel was a very busy musician during the late ‘50s, ‘60s and ‘70s, performing in more hits than just about any high profile artist during those times. But it was mostly as a studio session player, and his track credits (either as a keyboardist or bassist) were seldom included in the liner notes. If they had been, no doubt, his name would have easily reached that of household status. When I asked him if he was disappointed by not having earned public name recognition, he said, "Not one bit; I prefer it that way. My peers knew and that was enough."

Knechtel’s big-time session achievements are much too numerous to list in this interview, but I can say that he played either bass or keyboards on numerous tracks (many of them hits) by such artists as The Byrds, Elvis Presley, The Mamas and the Papas, Beach Boys, Ventures, Elvis Costello, Spencer Davis Group, John Denver, Neil Diamond, 5^th Dimension, Jerry Garcia, Grass Roots, Jan and Dean, The Monkees, Roy Orbison, Johnny Rivers, Sting, Nancy Sinatra, and Dick Dale, and this is only a small sampling, at best!

Now aside from laying down tracks with Duane Eddy and Bread, he was an active member of these groups during their peak days. In addition, Knechtel received a Grammy for Instrumental Arrangement on Simon and Garfunkel’s "Bridge over Troubled Waters," and, I might add, also played the piano on that track.

Larry is very outspoken in this interview and he blames it all on what he calls his "musical snob" demeanor, and his candid takes on some of the high-profile artists and producers with which he worked are also revealed, not so much in an ungenerous manner, but more on the lines of a sincere approach of wanting to tell it like it was.

This is a no-holds-barred interview with an extremely talented musician, who, without question, has seen and done it all.]

Lance Monthly (LM): Where and when were you born, did you grow up in a rural area or a neighborhood, and were there a lot of members in your birth family?

Larry Knechtel (LK): I was born on August 4, 1940 in a town in South East L.A. called Bell, California. It is definately not rural, being part of Los Angeles, and I had a mom and dad and two younger brothers. L.A. was a good place to be in the late ‘50s thru the ‘70s if you wanted to be involved in the music biz.

LM: Did your brothers or parents have the same interest in music as you?

LK: My middle brother is a church organist, but can only play the written notes, not an ear player. My youngest brother secretly played violin for awhile. My grandfather was the musician in the family, noted as a piano and clarinet player, and a good singer.

LM: What was the name of the high school you attended?

LK: Bell was semi tuff, about twenty percent Chicano, and they were there before the Anglos. I graduated from Bell High school.

LM: We’re about the exact same age, and when I was going to high school in Albuquerque, one was placed in one of three catagories and dressed accordingly: 1. Stomper – western attire with form-fitted shirts, Levis, and stovepipe boots, 2. Cat – pink or purple shirts with levis worn very low at the waist, duck-tail hair styles, and black patent leather shoes, 3. Yo- Yo or Square – Pants worn extremely high above the waist, tennis shoes, and off-brand jeans. What category did you fit in?

LK: None or the above . . . at my school you were either a "bad guy" or a "hi Y de mole" type. The bad guys wore tan kaki pants with the cuffs cut to fall over our shoes, long sleeve dress shirts, duck butt hair, and a gold cross on a chain.

LM: Did you surf?

LM: What rock artists did you like when rock first came on the scene? Were you a Buddy Holly fan?

LK: My Chicano buddies got me into black R & B when I was twelve. L.A. had a healthy R&B scene with three black radio stations and a lot of independent record labels. I loved Ray Charles, Fats Domino, Little Richard, Don and Dewey etc., [but] I didn't like white rock and roll. It sounded like rockabilly music to me, and I hated Pat Boone, Patti Page, Georgia Gibbs etc., doing bad covers of black records. Once you heard the real thing there was no going back. If you lived where they played the black artists, down south or [in] a large city, it was no contest.

Radio was really democratic if you had the choice, and it wasn't long before the white covers no longer were heard or put out. I have grown more tolerant in my dotage, but it wasn't until the Beatles came along and Motown moved to L.A. and got into disco that I really liked rock and roll. I still have my old 78s and 45s.

LK: So I take it that you were turned off with West Texas ‘50s rockabilly by artists like Holly and Orbison but dug black R&B and disco? Was surf vocals (Beach Boys and Jan and Dean) and surf instrumentals (Ventures and Dick Dale) not on your list of likes, as well?

Dick, NOT DISCO!!!!I I played on some Motown disco shit in L.A. It was like working in de salt mines of yore. I also played on the Beach Boys’ records and Jan and Dean right up to Jan's accident and afterwards. The Beach Boys’ album "Pet Sounds" is one of my career high points. I played organ and keyboards on it. Jan and Dean were a poor copy of the Beach Boys. I played on a lot of stuff I did not particularly care for, but that's the risk of being for hire.

I played with Duane Eddy from 1959 thru 1962, and he was much better than most of the instrumental groups of that period. I did do a couple albums with Davie Allan and the Arrows and one with the Ventures, and the Ventures’ guitarist "Nookie" somebody [Editor’s note: Nokie Edwards] was a damn good player. I guess I am a musical snob, but so be it.

No I didn't like surf music, my personal choices being blues and blues jazz. As for Buddy Holly, I liked "That'll Be the Day" and "It Doesn't Matter Anymore," also "Not Fade Away," but, overall, I didn't like rockabilly much. But you must remember I am telling you how I felt then; I like a lot more variety of music now, except I still hate disco and rap.

LM: At what age did you become interested in becoming a professional musician and what was the first instrument you picked up? In addition, what was the name of your first band and what were some of your early covers?

LK: My first rock and roll band was Merle and Larry and The Dynamics, and as neither Merle nor [I] sang, we did mainly instrumentals, [which were] sax based as we had no guitar . . . "Pachuco Hop," "All Night Long," "Blue Moon," etc, and [we did] some originals.

I played in a big band (15 pieces) for dances on weekends starting when I was 14. [As I already said] I played in my first rock band, The Dynamics when I was 16, and [later] joined Kip Tyler’s band. I had to join the musicians’ union when I was 18. All the gigs with these bands were paid gigs and I played piano back in those days. Kip Tyler was my first local taste of the big time. He had a couple of records out in L.A., but the main thing was we were the back up band for local TV personality and deejay, Art labeou. We played shows in auditoriums all over the L.A. area backing up R & B acts such as Marvin and Johnny (the original "Cherrie Pie"), Don and Dewey ("Leavin It All Up to You"), etc. In ‘59, I joined Duane Eddy's band.

LM: Did you have an interest in any other profession aside from music?

LK: My only other interest was history and archeology.

LM: Did you take piano lessons, or are you strickly self-taught? If you did take lessons, who was your instructor?

LK: My mother made all three of us boys take piano lessons from a local lady [named] Mrs.Wilson. She was very rudimentary, no scales, no Bach . . . I wish she had been better and more demanding.

LM: Was it your intention in the early part of your music career to become a high-profile studio musician or did you place all of your early hopes on The Dynamics in making it big?

LK: Had no ideas of going any further than playing weekends in a band; did not know of the existence of studio musicians. Always thought I would some day have to get a real job.

LM: Did you write many songs in the beginning, and, if so, did you have some success at it?

LK: Yes, I've always made up stuff. Some people call that writing. Mike Deasy (a guitar player friend) and I wrote a song called "So Fine Be Mine" that got some action back in ‘56 or so, and the record label used our demo for the track and added drums and vocals to it.

LM: You indicated that The Dynamics played some originals. Did your band release any of them?

LK: The Dynamics released one record called "Pigeon Toed" that I wrote, later covered by a Dennis Wilson on RCA records. Also wrote a couple album cuts with Duane Eddy.

LM: Are we talking about the Dennis Wilson of the Beach Boys that covered your tune?

LK: Dick, definately not that Dennis Wilson! That is one person I did not mourn for one second when he perished. Naw, it was a much better human being that covered my tune, even though he was a drummer.

LM: Larry, here’s a question that was sent to me from one of your fans, who pins himself as the Duke of Discs: "What memories do you have on your sessions with Elvis Presley? Was he as nice as I have read about, and did he take a lot of takes as he was known to do?"

LK: Elvis was a great guy. I had met him in Memphis years before when we were doing a Dick Clark Caravan of Stars tour and he invited us to his brand new home, which became Graceland. When I played bass on that comeback TV special, he remembered me from then. He also twice asked me to join his band, first on bass, later on piano, but I didn't want to leave town at that time so I didn't even ask what the gig paid. And as the soundtracks involved arrangements and a pretty good sized orchestra (horns and strings), there were not a lot of takes. Time be money.

LM: Here’s a question from Davie Allan of Davie Allan and the Arrows’ fame: "Larry, with the countless recordings you did, I wonder if you would remember playing on the soundtrack sessions that I did for all those ‘B’ movies such as ‘Skaterdater, ‘Devil's Angels,’ ‘Thunder Alley, ‘The Glory Stompers,’ ‘Wild In The Streets,’ ‘The Wild Racers,’ etc.?"

LK: Yes I remember the sessions with Mr. Allan--usually at Columbia Studios, sometimes with Mike Curb, or Gary Usher, but I don't remember the names of the projects or artists.

LM: So judging by the long impressive list of your high-profile studio accomplishments, how was it that your talents were in such huge demand by the hot mainstream artists and producers of the time? No doubt, you were talented, but then there were a ton of great L.A. musicians during the ‘50s, ‘60s, and ‘70s, who would just about have given their souls to the devil to have fullfilled one-tenth of your achievements. Would you say that it had a lot to do with having great connections, were in the right places at the right time, had a reputation for being able to effectively contribute the style, riff, and sound that the producers wanted, and finally, being easy to work with? In addition, did money have anything to do with it? In other words, did you often offer your services at special discounted rates?

LK: A combination of events: Right place and right time being a big part, also networking. I had worked in bands with Steve Douglas (sax player for Duane Eddy) at one time, and later, contractor for Phil Spector, who used many musicians on his sessions (three keyboards, four guitars, two drums, horns etc.), and I knew Phil. as well. At that time, the regular studio musicians were either big band guys or jazz players, who couldn't play rock at all, and that was all I played at that time.

Because I played on Spector’s early stuff, Brian [Wilson] and the other artists wanted to use the same guys that Phil did and it kind of snowballed. I had done a lot of demo recordings when I was playing bass with Johnny Otis and doing his local TV show, and, therefore, I was not bothered by the "red light" going on as some great players were. I knew what was required, for example: a good performance, no mistakes (at least discernable ones), good time and feel, and being able to fit musically into the arrangement. I also have perfect pitch, which makes me quick on my feet musically. And I was easy to get along with, [and] would try something else if they didn't like what I first offered. I never tried to schmooze the artists and producers, was polite, but I kept a certain professional manner and distance.

As for money, no we never gave discounts in order to get work; in fact, we soon were getting double and sometimes triple scale, as we could not do all the work offered us. That's not to say we wouldn't sometimes help someone we liked (or knew was good) get a break now and then, but once that person got a deal or had a hit, we were fully compensated and got our regular rate from then on.

LM: Phil Spector, although a genius like Brian Wilson, is an odd one. What was it like working with him and what is your overall take on his demeanor?

LK: I haven't seen or heard from Phil in years, but back in the old days, he was fun to work for, an innovator. He worked us pretty hard, but he paid promptly, well, and we got a lot of other work because we worked for him.

LM: I just re-read "Wouldn’t It Be Nice," an autobiography by Brian Wilson, which was originally published in 1991. Genius or not, I would have rather been a ditch digger all my life than to have lived his life experiences. His relationship with his dad, Murry, and his bandmates was something else. When you were involved with the Beach Boys’ recording sessions, did you observe Murry and Brian arguing with each other on the production of a particular track? What are your thoughts about your experiences with these individuals and the members of the Beach Boys as a whole?

LK: As I just said, I didn't try to ingratiate myself with the artists and producers I worked for, (I kept on my side of the glass), so I was unaware of Brians’ home life. I had an immense amount of respect for his musical gift, and really enjoyed working with him. There was one incident that I remember where Murry was ejected from Gold Star Studios, but I did not know what happened until after the session. I am keeping that one for my book!

My thoughts on the other guys: Mike Love can't sing in tune or compose, Al Jardin is a whiner with nothing to whine about, [and] I had no use for Dennis. The only one to be at the sessions and to actually play anything on the tracks was Carl, who could play and seemed a decent person. I only saw the other guys at live performances or TV shows (I played bass in the house band on the TV show "Shindig" for it's whole run). We also did a couple therapy sessions at Brians’ house after his breakdown. Bruce Johnson is a good guy, a good singer and writer, who took my keyboard slot in Kip Tyler’s band when I exited to join Duane Eddy.

LM: Book? What book? When will you have it completed and published, and do you have a title for it? Any details about it would be greatly appreciated by our readers.

LK: The book is a one-of-these-days project, but should get at it while I still have my memory.

LM: So why were you so turned off with Dennis? Was it because he was more interested in chasing girls and doing coke than being a professional, or was it much more personal than that, such as a physical confrontation or just something he said?

LK: Maybe [I’m] being [too] hard on Dennis, but from what I saw, he wasn't a very good drummer (they often carried another drummer on tours). He tried to help Charles Manson, and acted arrogant as hell.

LM: Did you every meet Brian Wilson’s psychiatrist, Gene Landy, and do you think he was unfairly persecuted after bringing Brian back from the dead?

LK: No I didn't, and Brian is not fully back.

LM: Many fans of the ‘60s and ‘70s mainstream artists are not aware that hired studio sessionists took their places in the sound studios. It’s my understanding that this was because of the heavy touring dates that kept the artists continually on the road, coupled with the honoring, by contract, of an agreed upon amount of albums that had to be recorded and released during a particular time frame. This pressure, no doubt, must have driven a lot of the hot artists of the time over the edge. What are your thoughts on this, and what artists, off hand, can you recall that had a hard time with this extraordinary stress?

Dick, the artists, at first, did try and hire us to go on the road with them, (we did a couple gigs for the Mamas and Papas until they could get a band together), but there was no way they could pay us the amount we were making doing sessions. In the early days, there were no rock session players. In my three years with Duane Eddy, we played on his records (he had a real good band), but by the early ‘60s, a caste system had evolved. You didn't need to have a studio calibre player for the road, just some one good enough to copy the part on the record consistantly, and he had all the time in the world to get it down and right. The studio guy did it on the spot.

I spent six years in Nashville and there were studio guys (maybe thirty or so) and road guys (hundreds). No producer there would use a road musician on a recording unless the artist had a lot of clout, and the player was unusually good. It was fairly rigid, maybe unfair, but that's how it be. You had to pay your dues, be good, and lucky.

Today there are not nearly the number of studio guys as there once was, as the industry has changed dramatically, mainly due to technology, home studios, etc. You can make recordings today without real musicians, and without any music ability. I am so thankful I did what I did, when I did. As my daughter is always telling me, "Life isn't fair."

LM: So basically you’re saying that the labels considered the majority of the band members of the mainstream groups as being, in a sense, substandard to the talents of the studio musicians and, as a result, the studio sessionists were employed in order to save studio time, right? And since the actual names of the performers were not credited on the albums, was it your belief that the labels’ actions were inexcusable by giving the fans the impression that the performances were by the actual band members?

LK: It was the producer who chose the songs, studio, and the musicians, and made most of the decisions. It was to save time, but also to get the best tracks and ideas, because back then, except for Brian and Phil, we made up our own parts and arrangements. It's not like hiring carpenters off the union floor, [as] the musicians had to play cohesively and together, and as we were musical mercenaries, we played for de money, not so much the credit, although it is nice to be recognized now.

LM: Of all the artists and producers who employed you, who were the most difficult?

LK: Simon and Garfunkle were the pickiest, but they were paying well for it, and they were a prestigeous act with which to be associated. Motown and Hal Davis were slave drivers, and wore us out rehearsing the tracks over and over till all the fun in playing was gone. I was lucky in that most of the people for [whom] I worked were good and I did not repeat working for any [that] weren’t.

LM: I understand that you received a Grammy for your production work on Simon and Garfunkle’s "Bridge Over Troubled Waters." What exactly was your envolvement with this hit tune?

LK: Yes I got the Grammy for the instrumental arrangement on "Bridge," [and] I also played the piano on it, which was a big part of the track. I made up the intro and the piano part. [In addition] Ernie Freeman got a Grammy for the string arrangement.

LM: I was told by a reliable source that it didn’t go well with you in a session with Hank Williams, Jr. Could you elaborate on that for our readers?

LK: Well I don't get into "dirty laundry," [but] I played on the album "Family Tradition," which went well, [and I] was called to Nashville later for another album upon which I didn't think the songs were on the same level. But in the middle of the project we had to do a Xmas cut for an album featuring the country artists on Warner Bros.--one song for each artist.

Hank chose "Little Drummer Boy" and during the recording, when he sang "rump a bump bum," I broke out in an audible laugh and, of course, the tape stopped. Hank left the room, and the producer, Jimmy Bowen, called me into the back room and said, "Hank’s unhappy with you," and immediately sent me back home.

LM: As you indicated, many times the original band members were shutout from participating in their recording sessions because the studio musicians were better suited for the work. However, it was always my understanding that some of the members of The Ventures missed a few recording dates only because they were away on the road and not because they couldn’t hold their own with the studio musicians. Do you recall what instruments you played on their tracks and was "Tel Star" one of them?

LK: I only did one album with the Ventures [Larry couldn’t recall which one], on bass, and Mel [Taylor] and Nokie were on it, so I can't answer that one.

LM: Randy Fuller, Larry Thompson, and Billy Webb of the Bobby Fuller Drive are good friends of yours, and, in fact, you provided the keyboards to their just released CD titled "Breaking Rocks." When did you develop a relationship with these outstanding musicians?

LK: I played in a local Bellingham band called Blue Heron in the late ‘80s, and Larry Thompson played drums. We kept in touch over the years, so he asked me to play keyboards on the "Breakin Rocks" album.

LM: Did Bob Keane of Del Fi Records ever employ you or was the word out to stay clear of him?

LK: Yes I worked for Bob Keane several times. Barry White was the house drummer then, but Mr. Keane played it straight with the musicians, [and] union scale etc. So, although we knew his reputation with the artists, etc., we had no problem ourselves. He paid just like every one else.

LM: Larry, you worked with the late John Phillips of the Mamas and the Papas. Phillips made it known in his gripping autobiography that his excessive speed addition just about ruined his music career. He further stated that, while he was in the studio, he often spent an equal amount of time in the bathroom shooting up as he did recording. Did you ever witness this behavior? In addition, what is your honest take on the other members of The Mamas and the Papas?

LK: Dick, no dirty laundry. We all knew drugs were involved, but they were every where and with pretty much everybody. Also, I didn't witness John in the bathroom cause at the same time (usually a break), we were outside smoking pot. My honest take on them is, John was the writer and director, Michele was the best looking, and Cass and Denny were real singers. We (The Wrecking Crew) did all of their recordings as long as they were an entity, and I played on one album with John after they broke up.

LM: While a member of Duane Eddy’s band, was his playlist strictly instrumental and was the group well received? In addition, did the touring dates normally include a cavalcade of other high-profile artists, which was a common practice during the ‘50s?

LK: Yes, Duane’s playlist was strictly instrumental, as were all the early bands I was in, [and] yes, we were well received. We were probably the best calbre rock band out there at the time. In fact, in 1960, we went on a three-week tour in England and Scotland with Bobby Darin headlining. Clyde MacPhater was second on the bill and [we were] third.

Bobby was riding on "Mack the Knife" and [he] had a real good English, big-band backing. The very first night, they booed Bobby during his set (being third on the bill we played first), and this happened every night. We were being mobbed, and Bobby wouldn't speak to us. We stayed an additional month headlining our own tour.

The English had never seen a real rock band in person; what they had over there were "skiffle" and folk-type groups, but Duane and us rocked! He is still well regarded over there, still has a fan club, and I did a tour with him over there in 1996. We did all kinds of gigs: some one nighters, week long club engagements in the beach towns of the East Coast (Wildwood, Cape May, Atlantic City, New Jersey), Toronto, etc.

Then the six-week package tours with Dick Clark, which I liked a lot even though we traveled on buses every night. These were mixed shows in a segregated south, and we saw racism in our faces. In L.A., it was there but defacto, and not among musicians. We did a three-week, West-Coast tour, one-nighters (just us), except four nights in Oakland and Frisco. We played a package with BB king, James Brown (when he was singing and not screaming and dancing), Hank Ballard and the Midniters (my favorite R&B vocalist; I bought all their records), Jerry Lee Lewis, and [just] us. I watched every show!

LM: All high-profile musicians, such as yourself, have experienced a bad venue. What was yours and why?

LK: I remember the great ones, [but] most were mediocre. The one real bad one was the night we played the Cotton Bowl (or whatever they call that stadium in Dallas, Texas) on a rainy night, and the stage was wet. We were being shocked by our instruments because of grounding problems. They brought flattened cardboard for us to stand on, but it got wet and was useless. A two-inch, blue spark hit anyone, who approached a microphone. They finally shut the show down, and we all went to a bar and got drunk.

LM: Larry, give me your all-time favorites for the following: 1. Composer, 2. Vocalist, 3. Guitarist, 4. Label, 5. Producer, 6. Band, 7. Venue, 8. Song (vocal), 9. Song (instrumental)

LK: Can't. I have different choices for different reasons, and I would NOT want to narrow them down to one. For instance, [for] guitarists, I have several: Charlie Christian, Larry Carlton, Jeff Beck, etc, etc. How in [the] hell do you choose? I can't and don't want to . . . the same with the other catagories. Who am I going to choose over Bach?

LM: How active are you in the studio at present and are there any particular projects with which you are currently envolved?

LK: No, I am not active much right now, and "Breakin Rocks" was my latest adventure in the studio. It ain't by choice.

LM: Your list of seemingly never-ending recording credits indicates that you played the keyboards in Elvis Presley’s 1968 NBC Christmas special. According to Peter Guralnick’s Elvis biography, "Careless Love," the whole project got off to a rough start, especially in the arrangements of the music score, etc. Billy Strange, who was hired to do the musical arrangement at the Colonel’s insistence, procrastinated on the project and then resigned. Could you give our readers a take on this event in your eyes?

LK: I played Fender bass on that special. Billy Strange was a very busy arranger in those days and couldn't possibly personally write all his arrangements. In one month I played on twenty-two of his arrangements and I did not work all his dates. He "ghosted" a lot of them out to unbusy arrangers, with his instructions, of course. It's called "make hay while the sun shines."

On the Elvis dates, when one of the horn or string players would ask about their notes in the chart, Billy, standing on the podium, couldn't seem to answer without difficulty, and kept having this little guy come up and whispering [to him], then [he would] give out the notes. The producer was no dummie and figured it out. Two nights later, the little guy, Billy Goldenburg was leading the orchestra. Mr Goldenburg was a good arranger and was quite succesfull after that.

LM: I suspect that your number of participations as a musician in high-profile studio productions is greater than that of most high-profile artists, but yet, you never achieved household name status. Has that ever bothered you?

LK: Not one bit; I prefer it that way. My peers knew and that was enough. [I’ve] never cared much for "public opinion" anyhow. I thought that Kiss was smart in their facial disguise. I was never bothered when out in public. Just "gime de money" . . . I know what I did.

LM: Earlier you said, "Jan and Dean are a poor copy of The Beach Boys." What did you mean by that?

LK: Come on, we're talking quality here, of singing performance and musical composition. My snobbery again. Personally, I like Jan and Dean a lot, [as well as] working for them, but they borrowed a lot from the Beach Boys, but not enough.

LM: Fill our readers in on your association with The Wrecking Crew. How long were you with The Wrecking Crew, and did the studio band release anything that charted in the Billboard 100?

LK: I never heard of the term "Wrecking Crew" until Hal Blaine used it in his book. It wasn't a band in the normal sense (too big) and [it] never put out a record or release that I know of. Hal used the term to describe the session players that we all worked regularly with from the early ‘60s Spector days through 1980 or so. I joined Bread in 1971, but continued doing sessions even after I moved from L.A. in 74.

[Wrecking Crew] basically numbered about thirty guys including horn players, three or four bass players, (my photo in Hall's book and the Beach Boy’s four disc comp shows me playing bass), three or four keyboard guys (myself, Don Randi, Leon Russell, Al Delory), [and] four or five guitarists. I worked with other drummers besides Hal and he worked without me when I was already booked.

LM: During the ‘60s, the L.A. rock scene was vastly different then that of San Francisco’s as the musicians were into a much different form of expression. In fact, it was so different, that the late John Phillips of the Mamas and Papas had a tough time putting together a concert with artists from both cities. What are your thoughts on this?

LM: So, Larry, did you get caught up in any way with the freak phenomenon; that is, long hair, hippy attire, love beads, spirtual enlightenment, philosophical readings (Ram Dass, Timothy Leary, Yogananda etc), and everything else that was related to that movement?

LK: I wore my hair long but, by that time, I was married and had a child and [I was] already a fiscal conservative, so no hippy ways for me. I did smoke pot, but I started that back in high school in East L.A., way before you ever heard of hippies.

LM: When Elvis Presley asked you to join his band, was that shortly after the 1968 NBC Christmas special when he opened at the International in Vegas? Reportedly, he hired bassist, Jerry Scheff, for a salary of about $1,000 a week, which was the average pay for all the musicians with the exception of guitarist, James Burton, who received a weekly amount of $2,500 because he was the designated leader of the band.

LK: Elvis did ask me to play bass for the Vegas gig, and, as I wasn't interested, I didn't inquire about salary. The second time, he asked me to play piano, but I turned him down for the same reasons and again didn't ask about salary, but I do know it was much higher.

LM: You said you joined Bread in 1971. How long were you with this group and what are your thoughts about your association with the band?

LK: I was with Bread until the final break up in 1977 and my thoughts on the whole subject are unavailable, except that it was a good gig, but not my musical preference.

LM: Did you ever meet Janis Joplin? What is your take on her vocal achievements?

LM: Back in the early ‘70s, Goldman called me and asked me to be Janis's musical director with a possibility of being involved in production. He called Leon Russell first [and he] turned him down. Then [he] called me. I hedged on giving the answer [as] it was 60k a year, plus I could still do sessions when not directly involved with Janis, [which] I later did with Bread.

At the time, I was working on an album with Simon and Garfunkel at Columbia's studios in L.A., and in the studio next to the one we were working in was Janis, rehearsing with Country Joe and the Fish. So [during the time] I was not being used (they were overdubbing Hal or Joe Osborn at the time), I hung out just inside the first of the double doors in the studio entrance.

I listened to them run down five or six songs, and it was easy to make my decision of "no thanks" as Janis sang each and every song the same way, [and] as loud and as screaming as she could, with no dynamics or variation at all. I could not stand it . . . even for money!

LM: How well did you do with your own musical compositions? Were any covered by high-profile mainstream artists of the time?

LK: [I] did not pursue writing per se at all. I made up musical stuff all the time but just didn't have the discipline to turn that into a song. I have had thirty songs or so recorded over the years and have made some money on them, but not enough to live on. I co-wrote one song with David Gates after [my association with] Bread [that] went to number 14 on the charts and [I] made some money from that. Johnny Rivers cut one of my tunes and Duane Eddy as well, but these were all album cuts.

Dick, I don't remember all the song titles I was involved in; [however], the one I wrote with David Gates was "Last Train to St. Tropez." Some [that] I wrote with Duane Eddy were "Carol," "Memories of Madrid," and I had one other chart song with Duane Eddy called "Drivin’ Home," which got in the top 40 charts, but most you never heard of.

LM: So you were smoking pot when flicks like "Reefer Madness" came out. Did you get a good laugh from those cheesy propaganda movies that exaggerated the herb’s side effects?

LK: Yes I got a laugh, but I didn't see it until I was in my 30's. I watch very little TV, [as] I prefer to read.